Episode 1: i come first: the radical power of selfishness
Welcome back to Season 2!
In this episode, Anna and Heidi Hinda discuss the controversial idea that our needs should come first, particularly in the context of business. They explore the importance of self-care, the concept of operating from an overflow, and the dangers of burnout; the need to distinguish between being in service and being in sacrifice; advocating for authenticity in business practices and the necessity of identifying both personal and business needs. In this engaging conversation, Anna and Heidi Hinda explore the themes of self-investment, the importance of creativity, and the necessity of support in business. They discuss how societal 'shoulds' can stifle creativity and emphasise the need to prioritise personal growth and well-being. The duo also highlights the significance of pleasure in work and the balance between self-care and empathy towards others. And they encourage listeners to embrace collaboration and seek support, ultimately fostering a more fulfilling entrepreneurial journey.
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Takeaways
Our needs should come first, especially in business.
The overflow concept is crucial for self-care.
Burnout can hinder business growth and success.
Recognizing the difference between service and sacrifice is vital.
Authenticity in business leads to greater fulfillment.
We must check in with our personal needs regularly.
It's important to craft a business that works for us.
Trusting our instincts can lead to better outcomes.
Identifying non-negotiable needs is essential for balance.
We are not defined by our business; we are individuals. Investing in ourselves is crucial for growth.
Creative thinking emerges when we prioritize our needs.
Support systems are essential to avoid burnout.
Pleasure in work enhances productivity and satisfaction.
Self-care is not selfish; it enables us to help others.
Collaboration can lead to greater outcomes than working alone.
Recognizing our worth is key to personal and professional development.
We should challenge the myth of the 'grind' in business.
Empathy towards ourselves leads to empathy for others.
Creating a community of support is vital for success.
Thank you for listening. We hope you have enjoyed it. If you have, please do like and subscribe on your favourite podcast platform. This really helps us get the word out. And do tell everyone you know!
Episode 2 of Season 2 will be released on Monday 10th February 2025.
TRANSCRIPT: S2. Ep1: I Come First: the Radical Power of Selfishness
Anna: Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the Full of Ourselves podcast. And today we're talking about the very controversial idea that our needs should come first. Who could even consider it!? I know, the shock on your face there, Heidi. I love it. But this is something we've been talking about and how important it is for us just generally in life, but also obviously in business as we talk about here particularly on this podcast. But sometimes, we, you know, we're in this role. We're always thinking about other people. You know, the idea of the woman being caring for others and thinking of others first, and we're like no, let's be full of ourselves here. Let's say that we need to come first. So yes, Heidi. What are your first thoughts on this one?
Heidi Hinda: I love that, absolutely. And it is, isn't it? And I know it's quite a stereotypical idea, a very gendered idea, but it is the role of the woman, isn't it, to care for everybody else, her children, her partner, everyone around her. Are you okay? You know, that is a kind of almost a natural part in our DNA, and it's a beautiful part. I think that makes, actually, a real positive thing, this desire to make sure that people are cared for and looked after and obviously talking, as you say, in the context of business, which we are, these things are really important. We want to come across as, you know, as heartful and people appreciate that and they can feel it. And I think it's a superpower that we have as women, but not when it's a detriment to ignoring our own needs or even not even being aware that we've got our needs in the first place, you know?
Anna: I think that's so true. And I was talking about this idea that I love, this kind of idea about the full cup. And I heard this idea and I was like, yes, okay, this is it. So the idea is that we need our cup overflowing. So it's not just a full cup, the cup and the content of the cup is mine. And I can't give you that because if I do that, it's to the detriment of myself and my own energy.
All I can give is my overflow. And when I heard that I was like, yes, that's exactly it. And a lot of the time we can feel very depleted, how I am with my good girl rebels, particularly this kind of personality that I am and that I am working with. We can be very much focusing on, am I keeping everyone else happy? Is everyone okay?
And it's always about, it's always looking outwards and it's never that internal. So today we want to give permission for you, should you need it, you shouldn't need it, but should you need it, permission to look inwards and go, am I okay? What do I need at this moment right now? What do I need? We kind of almost need to look after ourselves like we're little toddlers who are just about to have a little tantrum.
Heidi Hinda: Mmm. I love you. You're beautiful. Wow. And it's, there's so many things in what you just said. It's so beautiful because even though we're kind of joking about it and it's, you know, it can be a bit silly and especially if you're not, you know, if you're listening to this and maybe you've not, you're not that interested in the kind of personal development, well, that's absolutely fine. But this is just a very basic kind of almost bread and butter foundational way. To be in business, to have a sustainable business if you're interested in growth and success and expansion. Unless you start with how do you look after the foundations, you're gonna have a bloody hard time when you grow.
That's gonna send you into burnout straight away or having a breakdown or overwhelm, overload, all those places. And also it probably won't even be possible if your foundations, I always talk about this, of having really strong foundations and looking after yourself is so important. And what you just said about that, one of the things that's been really clear for me recently is that we have to live from the inside out. To start from the inside out and a lot of us live from the outside in and particularly when it's something that we're putting out into the world we're offering there's the visibility piece, there's the exposure piece, there's a service.
If we are not aware that maybe we've got those people pleasing tendencies going on, we've got perfectionism tendencies going on, this is all connected to this outside looking in of what will people think. We've touched upon this topic elsewhere in other episodes because it's such a huge one.
But particularly for this, we can't go, okay, I need to come first, I need to ask what my needs are, I need to tend to my own self before I open and respond to that first email out of hundreds that's in my inbox or that meeting. But if we're not aware that we're even doing that to begin with, you know, it actually, we're contracting ourselves or we're censoring ourselves or we're changing what we want to say or even offer or do even in our work, then there's a problem there because everything is reliant on others' needs. It's like saying they come first as opposed to us. And actually that, as I've already touched upon, can lead to a lot of distress and chaos. But also probably a lot of resentment over time as well because we're not fulfilling ourselves, fulfilling, filling our cup and then acting from, as you say, that place of overflow.
Anna: Yeah, absolutely. And I think what you said about burnout is very important because I think what can happen is we get really excited. We want to really work hard on our businesses. We want to do our best. You know, it's so important to us and it's kind of part of who we are. But I think that we need to remember that that should not be at the detriment of ourselves, our energy, or our health. All of those things do need to come first.
Heidi Hinda: Yeah.
Anna: And, you know, we can't give from an empty cup, as we're talking about, but when people do end up in that burnout, it takes longer to kind of come back to normal, as it were. We cannot give in that situation because we've depleted ourselves, there's nothing left to give. It's again, it's about that, it's a marathon and not a sprint, isn't it?
Heidi Hinda: Yes, absolutely, yeah.
Anna: We need to give but also give back to ourselves. We need to be able to do that in a sustainable way.
Heidi Hinda: Yeah, yeah, and that's going at our own pace, which can go against a lot of how society says we should be or what social media says. But what's coming up for me as you're speaking there is, you know, we can end up martyring ourselves, you know, the archetype of the martyr. And actually, I was just remembering something that a teacher of mine said years ago, and it was in the context of, I was doing Airbnb for a while, this is about a decade ago. I thought, I'll turn my spare bedroom into when Airbnb was beginning, really, or just starting. I thought, yeah, I'll give that a go. I live in the centre of the city. And because I lived in the centre of the city, it was quite new, I was getting a lot of bookings. And then I was noticing the times when I was like, for God's sake, I just can't be bothered with this person. How dare they use my kitchen to cook things and I can hear them breathing, you know, like, really like this. And I remember talking to my teacher about this at one point. And she said to me, and I still use this today to check in, she said to me, always check if you're in service or you're in sacrifice. Because if you're in sacrifice, you need to say no to whatever that is and tend to where you've become depleted. If you're in service, you have that overflow, to use your beautiful analogy, in order to be able to give and you'll enjoy it. And I use that a lot.
If I'm just noticing, you know, I'm feeling a bit full or a bit busy or there's a lot going on or I’m about to do something or someone's asked me to do something, I will check in and go, okay, right now, am I in service? I have the availability and capacity and desire. I'm not betraying myself. Or am I in sacrifice? I feel like I should. I can't say no. What will they think of me if I don't? And then actually end up feeling worse afterwards. That, any of you that are listening, you know, try that on. See if that works for you. It's, especially if you're not so used to even kind of understanding about your own needs, even just kind of noticing, I find that really helpful. Am I being a martyr, sacrificing, or am I actually in service? Do I have the capacity and availability right now?
Anna: I love that. The way I look at it is a similar thing and it's the same thing really, but I think I have to notice any time I have the word ‘should' in my head. I should do this and I should do that because whenever you're saying should, it's coming from something external. It's an expectation. Maybe you're just putting it on yourself. It might not be an expectation anyone else actually has on you, but you're putting it on as like, well, if I have a business that does this, then I should do this and I should do that. But actually that's one of the brilliant things about having a business is that you should craft, you need to craft it in a way that works for you and for your life. And it sounds like, You know, when we've been working.
Heidi Hinda: Yeah, and I think as well, thank you for saying that, because I get excited about this, because I love working with the subversive and with the edginess of what's possible and breaking and turning things on its head. And actually, and it's just occurring to me now, that might mean that contrary to all the thousands of ‘this is how you run your business’, all the million webinars that you take, or, you know, not saying there's not gold in those and really incredible knowledge and things that will really support you. But if you feel this isn't working for me, this isn't right for me, but I should, as you say, do this, because that's what seems to be what everyone's doing, but you're actually feeling something else. Our invitation to you is to listen to that, to trust that, and see what happens when you do it, even if it means going against what everything is shouting at around you. And that takes a lot of guts, doesn't it? I think to put ourselves first, takes a lot of guts anyway in life, nevermind in business, but if we can crack that in business, then I just think the sky's the limit, personally. And I think for both, can, I mean, I'm just gonna speak for you as well, Anna. You know, as having worked together and had the most incredible conversations and been a big witness and support as part of each other's business growth.
And also all the changes that we've both pivoted in, maneuvered in, because something has felt more about us first and foremost that we've needed to step in. And then actually how much that's creating much more success, thriving and joy and care and love for what we're both doing. I think I'm right in speaking for you there as well, aren't I, in saying that? By putting ourselves first.
Anna: Absolutely, and I feel like it's so much more authentic. It's much more authentic when we come from that place of not dragging ourselves like, I need, I must do this, I should do this, but actually coming from that place of, this is, we're not necessarily gonna, well, you might, I think you're gonna question me on this one. We're not necessarily gonna enjoy every part of our job, but we can talk about what we can do about those bits of the job that we don't enjoy. Or the work that we do that we don't enjoy. But I think if we bring that, I want this to be sustainable. I want to feel authentic. I want to enjoy this, enjoy the ride, enjoy what I'm doing, enjoy what I'm bringing. And that comes across. And I think we're in a fortunate position really, because there are lots of different ways to run a successful business right now.
There's so many different ways, there's not just one. And as you've said, sometimes we go on a webinar and they go, you should do it like this, this is how I've had success. And like you say, there's gold there. But if we need to kind of take that step back, like you were talking about and check in and go, huh, okay, I get that this works, but is this the right way for me? I think we sometimes forget that question. And I think that's the important question before we go headlong into something and then go now I've got to dial that back that wasn't right.
Heidi Hinda: Yeah, exactly. It's a kind of way to maybe not waste time, though I don't think anything's ever wasted in a way, like all our failures, all the wrong turns. You know, it's a fucking like, cliche, but it's true in that there's always learning, you know, from everywhere we go and that actually sustains us and, but yeah, it can kind of actually, you know, we take a bit of a detour from around that. But one of the things as well, so if you're listening to this and you're thinking, okay, this needs thing you're talking about, I'm a little confused, like what's it got to do with my business? Good question. So it is both because we also have to remember we're not our business. You know, that's really important. I have to remind myself that at times as well. It's something we do, but it's not who we are. So there are two elements coming together here. So what I suggest doing and I like to do, and I do this regularly because we change and our business is changing is to take time, you might get out a pen and paper or pad or a big piece of paper and some sharpies, whatever you enjoy doing. And first of all, what are my needs right now? Where am I at this season of my life or this season of the year? What is non-negotiable? If we look at needs, it's what is non-negotiable for me right now for me personally? You know, maybe it's kind of working just X amount of hours as a non-negotiable. Maybe it's being able to pick my kids up from school and that's non-negotiable, whatever it might be. And then turning towards your business and thinking about that as a living thing and going, what are my business needs right now? You know, so again, different seasons, maybe it's really my business needs to, you know, get out there, put its fancy frock on and show itself off all over the place. So it's all about promotion and advertising. That's not what my business needs right now. Or, you know, maybe my business needs a bit of reassessment at this moment.
There's a book that I recommend. I don't know if you've come across it, it's called The Crossroads of Should and Must. And I think it's by an artist and author called Elle Luna, which might be E, double, L, E, and then Luna. I think that's the name, or Ella Luna, written a few years ago.
And I mean, it's exactly this thing of shoulds, you're talking about shoulds and how they're not actually putting ourselves first. If it's a should, it's coming from elsewhere, as you said. And it's a beautiful book. It's one of those that's got a lot of like, you know, kind of more kind of handwriting kind of bits. And she's a beautiful speaker, artist and creative thinker. I've seen her speak on different things as well. She's spoken at Google.
So I think that whole creative thing, that's another thing as well, actually. I love where we're going today. It's like we have listeners, we have our notes, we always plan these and then they seem to go off into these great juicy conversations. Hence why we decided to create a podcast in the first place. There's something about when we're following the ‘shoulds’ or we're following what we think others want. There's no creativity in that. There's no juice in that.
Anna: Absolutely.
Heidi Hinda: And growth comes from the ability to get on board with creative thinking, curiosity, that space of possibility, which if we start more and more to put ourselves first, to listen in to what we need, to what our business needs, what are our values that are important to us, non-negotiable, what are the values of our business where it is right now, that are also non-negotiable and seeing where those places meet, there will be maybe separate bits, but the real strong places where they meet, that's where your creative sparks are gonna happen. That's where you're gonna bring your own genius, your own fire, your own excitement, ideas, into actually the service that you're offering, I think. So I really recommend that book. Go and check it out. Have you read it, Anna? Have you heard of it? No?
Anna: I love it. I've not heard of that one, sounds up my street. But I wanted to also add in, add that and plus, I think we also need to remember that we are worthy of investing in ourselves and in our business. And I think sometimes we can feel very. I think, know, again, it's different, people, different kinds of personalities, but some people feel a little bit reticent to do that. They're like, you know, the money goes wherever it goes. Maybe it does go to growing the business, but it doesn't necessarily go on growing ourselves. And I think that is an important thing. We've, we've had chats about this kind of, this kind of thing before, but what are your thoughts on this idea of investing in ourselves?
Heidi Hinda: Hmmmmm. Carry on. I want to hear more about that for you. I want to hear what that means for you actually. I'd love to know what that means to you, re investing in yourself and what your journey has been around.
Anna: Well, yeah. I think it's an important thing to be able to do, to be able to say I am worthy of growth. Sometimes I think people feel like I'm done. I'm an adult now. I don't need anything more. I'm fine. I'm just here and I'm done. But actually, I think we need quite a few different things. And when it comes to starting our own business, particularly, there's quite a few things that we need because we may not have the knowledge that we need. Things change very quickly in the world of business, so keeping up to date with things can be really important. So kind of like our education and training is really important. But then I think there are things like what we do in terms of coaching and support. We coach each other and it's a very valuable relationship that we have that has that. But I do also have another coach that I work with on a different kind of topic because, and that has really helped me grow in this last year. So, you know, I've invested in a mastermind working with a kind of a sales coach. I've invested in going to conferences and networking events and all of those things. Sometimes it's not necessarily the thing you think that you're signing up for that is the reason you're doing it’s to mean that you get this some little thing that you learn or a conversation that you have. Like there was one where I was talking to somebody about my business and they said, well, have you thought about this? Or have you had a look at the legal implications of that? And I was like, no, I hadn't thought about that. You know, it saved me a lot of effort and time. And it's about that. You don't know what you don't know sometimes. You know, it's about that in many ways.
But it's also just about having just, I think it's a bit about lots of different things. It's also about kind of going all in. It's like, this is important to me. I'm investing in this in terms of my time, but also I'm kind of putting money behind this as well. I think it's all of that all together, if that makes sense.
Heidi Hinda: Mmmmm. Yeah, well absolutely because when we think of investing I suppose the first thing that we think about is money. But when we invest, we invest in all of our resources. And those do include our time. They include our energy. You know, all our resources are literally all the energetic things that we have available to us. Our attention is a resource as well. So it's yeah, we tend to think of investment being purely financial, but it's actually all of those things. So for me, it's really interesting because I really admire and I'm really inspired. And I hear you, you know, you've been to this thing, you've been to that networking, I've asked you questions around that.
For me, interestingly, my investment has been the internal work of doing nervous system regulation. If I want to grow, if I want to earn more money, if I want to have more success, for me, it's okay, I need to expand my capacity to receive all of that. You know, I think that whole thing of having a glass ceiling or having certain levels or the patternings of things like what we allow ourselves in the world, how much power to hold, how much money we can earn, all those family things.
So actually learning the energetics, not in a hippie woo woo way, I'm really not into that in slightest, but in a very embodied way of how not to overwhelm our system. Because you hear about people, they have massive success and they just lose it all. They bring in loads of money, they lose it all very quickly. We wanna bring all that stuff in and be able to hold it and enjoy it and then reinvest it and keep growing. So for me, my investment and what I've put my money, my time, my attention, my energy into, has been, yeah, nervous system kind of work, building the strength, finding communities, the support, you know, in a kind of, which also has to do with co-regulation on the nervous system level. So working with anybody, if they're a person that you resonate with, that will also create that really beautiful support in your system to keep taking risks in your business.
And I also think, investing in ourselves is also something like maybe going to have a massage once a month or going to get your hair done or buying yourself that nice outfit or that beautiful bag that you like. You know, it's very Queen energy. I always see that and actually, if I'm being the sovereign of my own queendom, my own business, then there is a certain sense of on a very basic level of like, what are my needs? Maybe my needs are for luxury. So maybe I take myself out for a really beautiful dinner or lunch once a month, maybe with a dear friend and we celebrate everything going on or you know it's a little break somewhere or a beautiful book to read doesn't have to be these huge things. So this investing can be in all sorts of ways where we're going, actually I'm looking after myself, me and my business as well. I think together we cover a big range of how we can invest in ourselves.
Anna: Yeah, definitely. And actually, one coach that I work with, Anna Payne, suggests writing 20 non-money goals. Big things, small things, what do you want to tick off? Like some of those things that you just talked about. So it could be like a really big trip that you know, the trip of a lifetime you've always wanted to have, you know, write that down and little small things that you've always wanted to do, places to go, things you'd like to buy, whatever it might be.
Because the business is about growing the business. It's remembering that we're doing that because that is what we enjoy, but also it's because it's what we want to create for ourselves and for our lives. And for our family as well, it might be the things that we can do with them, for them. And I think that's a good one.
Heidi Hinda: It's building a legacy then, isn't it?
Anna: I just want to move on to investing in getting support for your business as well, because I think sometimes it can be very much like, I gotta do it all on myself. You know, I'm going out there and I'm getting it done. And there comes a point in our businesses, hopefully, where we've got that level of success and we actually can't do it all. And that's where the burnout can come in. And that's where we do need to get people to help.
And I know for me, I've worked with a photographer to get some really great photos done because that's not something that I have a skill set for. So it could be that as well. You might be doing it at the beginning of your business. You're like, I just don't have the skills to do that. Let's just get the expert. Let's get them in. Let's get them to do it. We've got a podcast editor who's doing that for us. Like working with a coach, that's helping. Or it could be working with a VA. To start with, it's often working with freelancers because hiring somebody takes a lot more payroll and insurance and all the kinds of stuff that you need to have when you're doing that. But I think that is kind of just, again, if you need it, permission to, I like this phrase of ‘hire around your weaknesses.’
Heidi Hinda: Nice.
Anna: Hire around those things that either you're not good at or you just don't want to be good at. Like if you don't want to be writing the emails, get a VA to do it. If you don't want to be posting on social media, you know, and you feel like you need to do that for your business, that's absolutely fine. You know, get a VA to do it. You have value in your business. Do those things that only you can do and find a way somehow of getting someone else to do those other things.
Heidi Hinda: My god, yeah. And even as you say that, you know, about like, it's fine and the permission to do that, it's such a relief. And there's also something very, again, it's got, it's that controversial edge of, great, so I don't have to learn how to do that. Or I actually really don't like that, so I've got to learn how to like doing that. Hell no. Give it to somebody, pay somebody. Pay a woman in business whose business is creating spreadsheets on blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever. And their eyes light up. Support other women to do the thing that makes them light up and like go bloody hell that was easy. I don't have to do that. And this part of this is the you know moving away from the false independent woman syndrome I call it, which I think many of us, especially probably if we are solopreneurs, we've probably got some of that false independent woman syndrome going on. Off I go, building my empire. Brilliant. But we don't do that alone.
Again, very cliche, isn't it? But we need support. And actually, I used to be a very lone wolf in everything I do. In the last couple of years, particularly, I'm collaborating a lot more and other things are coming up with other people. You learn loads about that. And also it's good fun. Who knew? Working with others is pleasurable, which also brings me to thinking about collaborations as well. We've had this collaboration of the podcast and you can be greater than the sum of your parts, I think. I think that's a key thing is like when we're working with sometimes when we're working with other people.
Anna: And we've got a great energy going, that can actually be more than if I was just doing something on my own. So that was just what I wanted to add in, but let's move on to your point as well.
Heidi Hinda: 100%. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. But it all comes back to actually what I want to say, which is, you know, almost like a bit of an elephant in the room in this whole episode so far. You know, there's a kind of pun in the whole, it's a cheeky pun in the whole, come first, you come first. You know, it kind of makes you think about pleasure and the kind of eroticism and that is a big part of how I work. But it's great. It's also been, you know, we've touched upon this in so much of what we've spoken about. At the end of the day we want what we're doing to be pleasurable for the most part of it. So that we're excited, we want to get out of bed in the morning. We want to walk to the office, we want to take meetings. We want to do the hard things, all the bits that are a bit more, when they're not the best bits, because there's pleasure in what we're doing. We feel alive. And for me, there is power in our own pleasure. And that also goes hand in hand with empowering and other people can feel the resonance of that if you're feeling pleasure in what you're doing. And yeah, that's what I wanted to kind of say about that as in, you know, like where is this thing around business can be pleasurable? You don't really hear it, do you? It's all about the numbers or the how big or the, you know, but who talks about I've got this thriving, you know, multi-zeroed international business and it's pleasurable as anything?! You don't tend to hear that but I don't know about you but I want to enjoy and get turned on by the work that I do so much that that energy attracts people and it's magnetic because there is something about when we're enjoying and alive and what we're doing it has a magnetic quality we don't have to like be grasping and trying so hard there is more of a kind of natural attraction we know that ourselves from the things that we're drawn to, or if you think about the people you want to work with, that's actually a good thing. Think about the people that you really like in business, you know, or you like their IG reels or websites or whatever it is or what they do. What is it about them? I bet anything they put themselves first and then it's an overflow of that that you're receiving and how they're putting their business up. I'm actually going to check that out myself for things as opposed to those people that put you first but forget about themselves. We're probably not really feeling them so much.
Anna: Definitely. That's so true. I think there's so much out there about the kind of grind and work all hours and do all this and then you'll get to some kind of pinnacle as though there's somewhere to get to. And when you get there, everything will be fine and you'll be able to sit on a beach and do all of that.
Heidi Hinda: Spoiler alert! No, you might as well sit on the beach and do all of that while you're getting there.
Anna: Yeah, let's. Exactly. Yeah. I think that's where burnout comes from. It's that story, it's that myth that that's what's going to get you there, but it's not.
Heidi Hinda: Yeah, true. And also with the burnout thing, if you think about it, things that burn out, there's a dryness, isn't there, that sparks off this fire that burns everything to cinders probably very quickly. And if we look at it in an imagery, touching upon what I was saying about, you know, our kind of, we come first, the eroticism of that, pleasure, there's a juiciness, there's the water element. I like to work with the elements. So we can have passion and fire and work hard, but because there's water, we don't burn out, we just simmer ourselves, we simmer everything, we're not going to burn ourselves to a crisp. It creates the sustainability of our zest and our passion. And I've always thought that and it's a thing I have to remind myself a lot because I get very caught up in the to-do lists and this and that and the panic around that and I've got to put this out and that's often when I feel a bit dry, a bit serious, a bit... and it's like, I've not nourished myself, I've not come back to that self-care, that self-needs to make me feel all luscious and juicy again. And then I've got the space and I've got the flow to do all that kind of harder work and not be destroyed by it. So there is, you know, on a very kind of very fundamental level, it's really needed to bring that, it's nourishment. It's the kind of real base level nourishment, isn't it? In that place. And there's some things, aren't there, about that, you know, you can be listening to all this going, that's all great and everything, but I just feel completely selfish. I just feel guilty and selfish if I was to do that. Don't know if you want to speak to that?
Anna: Yeah, think, well, it comes back to like my good girl rebels, who I am and who I like to work with. And I think there's very much a lot around that empathy for others, thinking about others, strong integrity, feeling like, if I need to do for others and, you know, and that's, it's not to say that there's not something there that when we have empathy, we have an understanding of other people that makes us great in business. And when we have integrity, people want to work with us and that makes us great in business. But I think in some ways, people are thinking like, no, this is going to sound wrong. But I feel like so many people are kind of thinking about other people and judging other people and they're not focusing enough on themselves.
You know, I think this idea of being selfish, well actually I feel like when we can look after ourselves, when we care for ourselves, if we can all really do that in this world and be focusing inwards and checking in with ourselves, how am I doing in this situation? Then that is much better than this outward looking judgmental, you're not good enough. You're not this. You know, I just, I don't know. I just feel like it's, in my view, better to be focusing on ourselves. It's that, Mother Teresa, what did she say? If everyone swept their own doorstep, the whole world would be clean. And there's a little bit of that, I feel, around us as people. It's kind of, if we looked at ourselves and if we worked on ourselves and we cared for other people, absolutely.
Heidi Hinda: 100 %
Anna: The whole world would be better.
Heidi Hinda: That's so beautiful. I love her. That's gorgeous. It also makes me think, because then we have more, you know, talk about capacity and relaxation, that we are more available to respond to life then when we don't and we're overwhelmed. That's when we react, isn't it? We make mountains out of molehills, we get, you know, we start arguments with people and also the judge. I know for me when I go into, I can be the biggest judge in the world, when I go into that place, it's because I've left myself. You know, I'm not tending to myself.
There's all this comparison. There's all this like competition. There's all this. Who do they think they are? You know, when actually, you know, coming right back to the name of our podcast, it's about going, actually, this is who I am. I am full of myself. You know, not like, hello, I'm empty. We love how controversial this topic is because it is another different place that we've touched upon. It's quite edgy, isn't it? A lot of this, all these things.
Anna: Yep, absolutely. It shouldn't be though.
Heidi Hinda: Yeah, it's actually because it's, it can go against that part of us that is very stuck in that everyone else has to come first before me. And we're saying to you, we're inviting you, we're not telling you should, we're just inviting you to have a little curiosity, to feel into what that might feel like in your body, what that might mean for you going forward. As always, we absolutely would love, love, love to hear anything that's come up for you from our discussion in this episode, any realizations you might have had, any questions, anything that you really don't agree with, please bring it on. We wanna really kind of get a community and conversation going. We so, so welcome that engagement. Anything you're agreeing with, anything that's made you go, you know what? I wanna start doing this. Let us know if you wanna have that bit of accountability. Putting this here so that it's in words, I've put it out there. And if you know anybody who you think they actually should listen to this episode, I'm really gonna go with that one here, then please send them the link to this episode. Tell them they need to listen to this because it's really valuable. And you know, we're here because we believe in you. We believe in us, as women, going on this journey. Lighting the world up with the things that set us on fire, that make a difference, that support each other. It's the way, you know, absolutely. We come first in our full of ourselves revolution.
Anna: I love that so much. Well, thank you so much. What a brilliant episode. And we will see you again shortly for another episode. So, yes, thank you for listening.
Heidi Hinda: Bye.